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Red Eclipse • View topic - INFO: What is Horizon?

INFO: What is Horizon?

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INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby qreeves » 20 Apr 2016 06:08

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby restcoser » 20 Apr 2016 11:48

Uuuhm, i like mapping in tesseract.... and i can map better than that... so if this goes anywhere, i might end up mapping for it.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby qreeves » 20 Apr 2016 11:54

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby SniperGoth » 20 Apr 2016 13:37

Sounds like a great new start!
Since im used to mapping on Tesseract... count me in ^^
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby freezurbern » 20 Apr 2016 17:06

I'm excited. I'll be watching this closely. :)

With the different theme (RE is more scifi/colorful), is there a want for city and/or bleached skyboxes? It is possible to use RE maps in skyboxes, including textures. In this way, one could create an exterior cityscape and render it as a skybox to save FPS.
I feel like a lot could be done with current skyboxes by modifying them with builtin commands, but I would like to offer my support in creating these assets.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby ImQ009 » 20 Apr 2016 18:22

Hm, that's pretty cool.

How about a /slightly/ different style? I think something a little bit more dystopian, rainy could work.
I simply think mimicking the entire style 1:1 is a rather lazy path.

Either way, looking forward to see the project develop into something.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby Ravicale » 20 Apr 2016 18:51

I should really get into mapping.

The only thing that worries me is how you would render the cityscapes that you typically see in Mirror's edge aren't exactly Tess's strong suit. Modeling out far enough leads to Z-fighting issues and such while plain 2d skyboxes would look a bit cheapish in many cases. You would probably want to implement something like the 3d skyboxes in source to do them properly?

I think Q009's rainy dystopian idea would also work quite nicely. I could see some unique stuff coming out of that.

Either way, the hype is real!
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby shirepirate » 20 Apr 2016 19:11

+1 for 3d skyboxes
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby freezurbern » 20 Apr 2016 21:29

Something to consider: coop campaign. Certainly not as multiplayer as RE, but could be a later update such as 1.5
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby blakthunder » 20 Apr 2016 23:13

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby qreeves » 21 Apr 2016 03:14

I don't intend to rip the theme of Mirror's Edge directly, it is more of a starting point with a general idea of how I want it to look (because consistency in an SP game is more important). I've already imported the content from RE that I feel would suit our purposes, so it's just a matter of someone(s) stepping up to be "art director" and establish the aesthetic parameters.

I do plan on trying to get 3d skyboxes, as I know how useful they'd be for our purposes, but engine development is something that happens along the way as we figure what we want.

The basic physics gameplay is ready to go, so test away. It's the whole basis of the game, and it would be good to get as many eyes on it as possible so we can set it in stone and then focus on building the other necessary components. Basically I need to know if it feels OK, and what might need tweaking.

I'm leaving the server parts in place, so a co-op campaign is definitely possible - but I hope everyone understands that this is secondary to developing the single player story. For now there's a multiplayer lobby mode you can fool around in with other players on the existing maps, though I suggest edit mode for now so you can jump in and out at specific points in the map.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby shirepirate » 21 Apr 2016 04:20

how about semaphore built binaries for the lazy? seeing as you already wrote a fancy script for it and everything
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby yul » 22 Apr 2016 00:38

Singleplayer other than offline practice?? BOYAH, BABY.

Okay, so here's my take on this idea so far. I like that the base game forces you to go for avoidance over combat; i can see some real elegant speedrun potential and level design potential since it's not all dependant on line-of-sight bullet-spraying.

BUT i feel that there will need to be a reasonable progression in the levels. Say you start off with practically no weapons (claw, punch, kick or whatever), in which case a basic ranged enemy could potentially obliterate you if your'e not careful.

THEN, say you get the rifle after, IDK, 4 stages or so. Suddenly your range potential is upgrade, and you can afford to be somewhat less cautious with parkour. Other weapons can be gradually unlocked later on.

ALSO. if the engine allows for it, boss battles could be kickass. The potential is near limitless with the parkour system. Idea: a core-like boss that sweeps lazers clockwise around a circular room, or one that forces you to give chase through a high-speed train tunnel or sumthin'.

I'd love to see this developed, even though i cant really contribute much else than written ideas... But yeah, it's got my vote :D

*Edit
also how do i get this in-progess version? For mac, if possible :mrgreen:
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby qreeves » 22 Apr 2016 03:46

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby ZestyPasta » 22 Apr 2016 14:28

okay, we're adding a campaign, cool.

I'm getting a mirrors edge vibe by that btw. :) Since this will rely loads on parkour and it'll be more stealth based, can we please have a climb up system? Trust me, I do parkour 3 times a week for 3 years now and I would like a climb up system. Maybe like the style of mirrors edge?
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby bonifarz » 22 Apr 2016 16:12

Sounds cool!
Do you have plans for movement abilities that are unlocked during the campaign? It could be nice to start with the agility of a human traceur, and to gradually obtain some of the impulse technology, for instance boots that allow short wall runs.
I've put a short news text on gamejolt, hope that's okay.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby ImQ009 » 22 Apr 2016 19:46

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby Imerion » 23 Apr 2016 00:25

Wow! Fantastic news, I'm super-hyped for this! I'm sure it will be amazing, especially considering how great Red Eclipse is. Good luck to everyone involved! :D

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby unixfreak » 23 Apr 2016 00:35

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby qreeves » 23 Apr 2016 03:39

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby shirepirate » 23 Apr 2016 03:57

one thing to consider is using shift for scaling a wall instead (i assume there's no need for crouching in this fast-paced prequel). so: jump at a wall with space, hold shift to scale wall, pressing space again holds your position on the wall for a few seconds interim to your next parkour move (hold it too long and you fall off the wall), and pressing space again after that performs the 180 spin/jump (pressing double space performs this combination quickly). also you could consider using A/D as directional buttons while holding shift and scaling the wall, to move from side to side and avoid obstacles

if there's ever a ground slide move added which may have needed crouch you can bind it to C

also giving Q a mid-air function might be cool (a forward boost? would have to play with the strength).

take this with a grain of salt though, i haven't even compiled the game yet. maybe it will give some ideas
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby qreeves » 23 Apr 2016 09:24

The build system from RE has now been ported and binaries will automatically download as needed.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby restcoser » 23 Apr 2016 12:40

That means now me (and maybe others) will actually bother and try it out. Great job getting the essentials up and running c:
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby blakthunder » 23 Apr 2016 16:39

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby nemurati » 23 Apr 2016 18:31

Very interesting!

I like the plot, it makes sense of the player characters' actions and is also plausible. Personally, if I were up against an oppressive government, I'd aim to destroy or transform it rather than just steal their project plans. Though, everyone is different, so the more generic goal is fitting.

I like the parkour-centric gameplay, since movement is a more core part of the game design than is the weaponry.

I would focus more on parkour mechanics rather than puzzles for the same reason. Movement is a complex skill that can be learned and mastered, while puzzles tend to be obstructions that stop being interesting after solving them for the first time.

Woo, Tesseract engine! Starting a new project on top of Tesseract rather than trying to retrofit the existing codebase is smart. That should simplify things; decreasing overall development time, bugs, and headaches. Also, it leaves room to implement fresh & more informed game mechanics.

My first impression after trying the new engine: The player certainly feels heavier, more like a human rather than a lightweight alien or superhero. That's not a bad thing, it's more realistic. However, if the game is going to go in that direction, I would like to see the game fully embrace it. That is, make it feel completely realistic. For example, wall running now involves gravity pushing you down, which is realistic; but then you are able to jump off the wall, come back to it, and start wall running again, which is a feat that nobody can accomplish in real life. :D
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby shirepirate » 24 Apr 2016 01:40

my first impression is the movement is very slow for a parkour game, i'm not sure i like it much
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby restcoser » 24 Apr 2016 10:21

I think some speed up over time... run up thing might help
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby qreeves » 24 Apr 2016 11:25

Yeah I was thinking the same thing.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby amsyarZeRo » 26 Apr 2016 14:03

A prequel to Red Eclipse!Nice!Expect me to play it once it has a stable release(for Mac)! :D
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby Julius » 27 Apr 2016 13:26

Given the preliminary Occulus VR support in Tesseract, it would probably be good to keep a possible VR port a bit in mind when designing the gameplay. This will probably mean to slow down the gameplay somewhat to avoid motion sickness, but then you can also focus a bit more on the puzzle aspect.

A painterly texture style would be cool too, maybe something fitting to this sky: http://www.blendswap.com/blends/view/80706 ?

Anyways, sounds like a really cool game so far!
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby ImQ009 » 27 Apr 2016 15:16

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby blakthunder » 27 Apr 2016 23:13

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby qreeves » 28 Apr 2016 05:49

eihrul only had access to Oculus DK1, since then DK2 has been released which broke compatibility IIRC.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby qreeves » 28 Apr 2016 11:15

Removed long jump, added climb-vault and coil jumping (slight speed boost while crouching in mid air).

- Third obstacle (the long jump): Get a run up, as you approach the "fence" press and hold SPACE (jump) to climb-vault. This can be tricky to do.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby FaTony » 29 Apr 2016 18:57

I'm seriously against this. By my rough estimate it takes 100 manhours to create a 1 minute of single player game. This means for a solid campaign we'll need months of several people working full-time and for what? People will quickly finish the game, uninstall and move on.

There's won't be a big community as there's practically no point since there's no multiplayer.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby shirepirate » 30 Apr 2016 00:16

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby qreeves » 30 Apr 2016 06:49

It's taken 12 years to create Red Eclipse so far, so I'm not unaware of the challenges involved, that is what makes it interesting. I don't really care if people play, uninstall, and move on - at least they played it, isn't that the point? People underestimate the "race" community as well, I see more people playing those maps all the time, and all they can do is talk to each other and help each other through the map. They are part of the inspiration to do this actually. It might turn out singplayer with coop, it might become competitive, I can't know until it evolves. Red Eclipse is nothing like the game I originally created.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby FaTony » 30 Apr 2016 08:10

Well, good luck then, I'll just keep playing and mapping for RE.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby ShaneRoach » 30 Apr 2016 17:55

I am enjoying playing around with all of this stuff.

For a single player game it may or may not be fun to have that third person view that lets you stare at the back of your character all day. I have seen some games that let you pick your view, and I like that option. Really, at some point I would love to see it give the full 360 of your character using some viewpoint option or the other.

Neither Xonotic nor Red Eclipse seem to bother much about the timing of feet touching the floor as you run, but that would be a nice touch for style.

Most video games allow you to steer in mid air, and this appears to be no exception. It might not strike some as "fun" but I would enjoy a game whose physics required you to set up your jumps while your feet are still touching the ground. Plus its another "feature" your character can discover later - jets that allow a little bit of mid air maneuvering.

Spin kick thing is fun, and just highlights why it might be more fun to actually see yourself do it.

Am I missing something simple about ladders? Other than that going down them may be superfluous without falling damage? I seem to be able to climb up them but not down.

Presumably the game crashes when I try to run character setup because it's not coded yet? Don't know if it might not be better to add a little more graceful way of dealing with that until it's fixed. Or let me know if you think it is a bug, I guess I can find the error file somewhere and put in a bug.

Also, not sure if this is a feature or a bug, but I had to change the permissions on horizon.sh in order to execute it. That might be a little hiccup that prevents non-techie-oriented gamers from trying this out on download.

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby qreeves » 01 May 2016 10:43

Fixed the file permissions. Note that I've just started on Horizon so it's not even anywhere near ready for prime time yet, but yeah I am heading in a more realistic direction than RE. You might have pressed '9' accidentally and set third person view as well, it's supposed to be first person.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby ShaneRoach » 01 May 2016 19:39

They're bugs, Wyatt. All that smart talk about live and let live. There ain't no live and let live with bugs.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby SniperGoth » 01 May 2016 23:15

Ex Iron fist level designer/ Ex Revelade Revolution level designer, 3d/2d artist, and still trying to figure out sound design...
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby ZestyPasta » 03 May 2016 14:15

Is horizon gonna be part of 1.5.5? or is 1.5.5 mainly tiny improvements with bug fixes?
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby bonifarz » 03 May 2016 15:19

Neither.
RE horizion is a completely new game in its very early stage of development.
And version 1.5.5 of Red Eclipse comes with plenty of new features, such as a player stats system, a claw weapon and new mutators, better coop editing and lots of new menus.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby ZestyPasta » 03 May 2016 15:24

Awesome. Sounds really fun. Can't wait <3
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby 98digger » 05 May 2016 01:42

Wow, didn't expect this to happen! :) Sounds like a great idea to me; a prequel to Red Eclipse that focuses on the singleplayer experience. Can't wait to play it! :D

Quick question: Since Horizon is going to be using Tesseract, does this mean that Red Eclipse will also move to Tesseract at some point? Or will it stay with Cube 2? Seems to me that Horizon would be the perfect testing ground for the suitability of the Tesseract engine for Red Eclipse.
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby qreeves » 05 May 2016 02:31

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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby LugariusRE » 15 May 2016 20:03

I want to help making the installation easier! working on Tesseract to make portable
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby Ulukai » 23 May 2016 17:52

Hi, reading up on all the changes in the community and this is the first time I hear about project Horizon.

Sounds like a lot of fun, and I'm happy to see that you keep pushing forward with your plans to embrace the Tesseract engine and start a new projetc. I'm definitely interested and will try to follow it closely and see what I can do when it all starts to take off. Singleplayer is fun, but I sure hope there will also be any form of multiplayer in the game. Be it racing, coop, or fighting in the arena combining with parkour movements. The multiplayer adds replay value and many players prefer the social interaction over lone gaming over and over again.

The style is very inspiring, I really like the grey and colored areas which will make everything clear when running at high speeds!
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby SniperGoth » 02 Jul 2017 03:01

Necro-bump, but i want to ask.
Is this still planned to be developed?
Ex Iron fist level designer/ Ex Revelade Revolution level designer, 3d/2d artist, and still trying to figure out sound design...
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby qreeves » 02 Jul 2017 05:12

I had trouble getting interest in the project. While working on it I realised how much we've changed the underlying engine for Red Eclipse compared to Cube 2 and I didn't particularly like the idea of doing it all over again from scratch. The more likely scenario is that RE gets upgraded with Tesseract features and development will take place in the main tree rather than as a separate concurrent project.
Quinton Reeves | Lead Developer, Red Eclipse
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Re: INFO: What is Horizon?

Postby acerspyro » 16 Jul 2017 05:25

Molexted and I really feel it should be the opposite actually, porting Red Eclipse to Tesseract rather than the other way around.

While Tesseract is a relatively stable platform, Red Eclipse is pretty much a bunch of hacks on top of Cube 2: Sauerbraten. Porting bits of Tesseract to something already complicated would add another layer of complexity, AKA bugs for months, if not years to come!

I know you have already started working on porting Tesseract to Red Eclipse and don't want to backtrack to do it again the other way around, but that is a sunk cost fallacy. In the end, it is your decision, but I invite you to think about it seriously before you move any further with the port.
*screams internally*
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