(WIP) Kruzh'Em - Progress Notes from first map experience.

[Sakrecoer]

Hi!

This is my first post. Map editing is what brought me into Red Eclipse in the first place. Last time i was this addicted to a computer game was Quack III Arena. Back then i was dreaming about turning my building into a quakemap and at somepoint i got reminded about it and thought: "what kindof FPS is there available on linux that is comprehensively open enough for a n00b like me to digg into world editing?" And here i am today... I am far from being done yet, but I thought (and was told) my notes be better out here for anyone to enjoy (or not?) than in a lonely textfile on my computer. I will furbish the thread as i make n00bsteps of experience.

So, let's get down to it. I've been working on a map i call Kruzh'Em, the theme is train-yard/graffiti. The first thing i did was to laydown an asset-charts of the most important element for a good train-yard:
- the trains
- the rails.
- Control Tower
- Underground tunnels
- lamppost.
- signalisation.
- CCTV
- barbed wire
- graffiti textures

In a compromise between the constraints imposed by my n00biness along with my "aesthetic" intentions, i opted for a retrolooking train, "rolling" on a futuristic magnetic monorail. This gave me a map-feature: The rails magno-pods have a slight bouncing effect. But, since this railsystem has been abondened for a longtime as we play on it, some of the magno-pods are defect and red, these ones are deadly. The control towers became the base for the flags and a link to the subterreanean part of the map. The underground is where i made the tunnel system or "labyrinth". But there is also some trains layed up here. At the moment i'm working on getting details like signalisation and CCTV modeled (these can be cool features for parkour) and including the barbedwire and graffiti textures.

Up to this point i've mainly used the brilliant and simple "Red Eclipse Edit Mode Tutorial" in 3 parts (1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2I5BwhBMe8 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHjcgki37f4 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqpF8Qh3hxo ). I'd say this is the prefect starting point. (if someone knows better, please link) It took me a while to grasp it, but it seems in terms of searching, the cube2 "documentation" is an easier documentation source than the Red Eclipse Wiki at the moment. The IRC channel of #redeclipse is very good source too. But the most giving has been sneaking arround on edit-servers while populated to try and get some trix from other players. (thank you kind community . Among other things i was told in editing mode, is the middle-mouse button selection:

If you hold down the middle-mouse button while you drag a selection, you get a sort of parabolic grid that intrudes your selection in an eliptic shape uppon mousewheel scrolling. I am not quite sure yet how to control where the center of the elipse gets positioned, nor how to achieve this effect in extrusion. But hopefully someone will be kind enough to explain. The doc calls it "corner selection" http://sauerbraten.org/docs/editing.html#cheat_sheet

At the moment i am studying how to texture paint. I do have some blender experience so i sort of get the concept, but I am n00b to RE so iam walking pretty blindfolded on this path. I was hoping there would be a way to bake textures and apply the graffiti on them in GIMP. But if i get this right: http://sauerbraten.org/docs/editref.html#painting This function is about blending textures, using multilayered (2) textures. This is something that has to be configured in the .cfg of the map. I havn't managed to do it yet, but i think my sollution for the graffiti is here: http://sauerbraten.org/docs/editref.html#texture Where the type has to be set to "d" (decal) Perhaps someone can help me fill the blanks?

To this point, the map isn't much to have, there are no entities except some lights (no deadly magno-pods nor hefty CCTV and signalisation, but you can check it out here: http://tfb.basspistol.com/Kruzhem.tar.gz feel free to edit it or use assets in it like you want (i guess same licens as RE applies) But if you do reuse any asset, please credit me but most of all: please tell me how you recycle assets from map to map :p <3 THANK YOU!!!!!

Read you later!

Post Scriptum: I know most of the users here are probably super familiar to what i'm writing and asking... Rest assured, i know my place on the n00b bench and do not pretend to understand or make things better than anyone. I'm just doing this to keep myself on track and eventualy help any future n00bs having fun!

[SylvieLorxu]

[Sakrecoer]

Hi! thank you! good question. If i was anyone to decide in this world, there would be no other license than public domain. Or better said: there would be no need for licenses <3 Since i am nobody to decide in this world, but I still try to adapt to it, I doubt public domain can apply to the textures, which are all the buildt-in ones from RE.

So, in terms of "map-models" CC-BY-SA is fair enough! The graffiti textures, which are not included in the above map package, most of them will be public domain, others are CC-BY-NC-SA. I have written permission to back this, would it become relevant further on

[SylvieLorxu]

A note for you and everyone who wants to use the graffiti textures: The work can't be included in Red Eclipse.

Our policy dictates a legally-enforceable, Free Culture license. "Public domain" is not legally enforceable ([url="https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/"]CC0[/url], however, should be), and CC-BY-NC-SA is not a Free Culture license (the only Creative Commons licenses that are are CC-BY, CC-BY-SA and CC0).

Luckily, they aren't in the package as you said, so that isn't really something to worry about, but I thought it'd be fair to make note of.

Please do note that I haven't taken a look at the package yet, but I felt that it may be worth noting it. I hope someone will comment on the actual content soon, I'm just a boring licensing person.

[Sakrecoer]

please, be that license person. somebody has got to. the fact i dream of a license free world, dosen't mean i have no respect for legaly consistent and educated people! on the contrary: thank you universe for bringing you to us! <3 without creative commons licenses and alikes i would make drawings in a cave today and probably be depressed

but just to make sure i got it right: i can use graffiti textures on a redeclipse map and distribute it, ONLY if they are creative commons licensed? maybe creative commons 0, but most defenetly 2.5? is that correct?

[qreeves]

Decal textures don't work with bump/env/spec mapped textures, so you'd be losing visual quality by trying to use the feature (it doesn't get used in RE for this reason). Fortunately, every single thing in RE allows you to make modifications and share those modifications, so you can simply take a base texture, put your graffiti on it, and distribute that new texture. This has the added bonus of allowing you to also control bump/env/spec mapping on the entire piece.

As TLP has already mentioned, Public Domain is not legally enforcable in many countries, in which case you are encouraged to use CC0, which is similar but actually outlines the rights people have to the work. As for the CC-BY-NC-SA, I don't allow -NC licenses in Red Eclipse. This not only allows the game to be included, free of charge, in many online operating system distributions, magazine cover discs, commercial tech demos (like Microsoft's Illumiroom), and more, but also allows me to create derivative commercial games in the future, perhaps one day giving me a little income for the work I've done over the last 10 years.

You may or may not have a problem with the ways we'd like to use your work under the strict licensing conditions, but you should be aware of it.

[Sakrecoer]

Thank you qreeves! that sums up my sollution for the textures i guess i will try it out asap.

my aim with this map is very personal satisfaction, i have no intention to become a level-designer on another basis than personal fun. this said, i don't mind using the licenses you require. on the contrary, i'm present here in the forums to hopefully share the fun with fellow RE's, lets do it properly. i will get back to the graffiti artists implied with this information and see what they say. none of the pictures i want to use have been released yet, hence we can still license them as we please and agree.

read you soon,
Set

[FaTony]

When I've started mapping, I decided to make a very simple mirrored map made of corridors and make it play well. I didn't bother with textures because they have almost no effect on the gameplay and I wanted to have something playable as soon as possible. After a few tries, I've found that completely horizontal map is not fun and added some slopes, then pushers, then spent many hours playtesting. After about 4 months I got a map that played well. Now I decided to try texturing it and found it extremely tiresome. So instead I decided to make a very very small duel map and learn texturing while doing it. After about 2 months I had . Then I decided to make a bit bigger map which I'm still working on.

[Sakrecoer]

That map is very good! I had just come to realise the hole "playabillity" aspect, but also that "right now this is boring, what else can i do" dimension of the process. So your post comes in very valuable to me.
Thank you FaTony for sharing these thoughts!!

[subraizada3]

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[SniperGoth]

@subraizada3 : Scrolling textures.

[Sakrecoer]

[subraizada3]

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[Calinou]

Live Fire uses animated map models to make movable stuff. They have a very poor collision box, since it never moves. They also don't cast shadows.

[FaTony]