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Red Eclipse • View topic - INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review
Page 1 of 1

INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 16 May 2016 09:41
by qreeves
A user by the name of CZAR on Wikipedia recently (Feb 2016) removed all the content for the and (which is incorrect, Red Eclipse is ZLIB, only some of the content is CC). When this was challenged today, the user then . I could use some help from someone more familiar with Wikipedia as I only know parts of the policy involved here (and I have managed so far to stay within them despite accusations of "Conflict of Interest"). we already have a few reputable sources which have reviewed the game and me following the policies which govern this process.

If you're going to join the discussion, I suggest you make your bias known from the start as this user will definitely call you out on it (and will likely see this forum post as well). . We should try to collect as much information as possible and make an attempt to highlight the reputable sources for information. Please do not do anything that violates Wikipedia policies, and if in doubt, ask here first. The purpose of this topic is to encourage a positive outcome for the project's article while following the rules of Wikipedia.




EDIT: Strikeout added (argumentative and unjustified).

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 16 May 2016 11:00
by bonifarz
I thought it when I first saw this redirect: "It's a shame". This entire discussion >_<

I hope we manage to get one or the other new review for the next release, maybe that will help to add something to list of references.

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 16 May 2016 17:45
by Jfault
Woah this exploded o.o

TBH we do have a lack to reliable sources by Wikipedia standards... CZAR is not wrong about that.

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 16 May 2016 17:55
by FaTony
It would be a shame if this article would be deleted. That's how I stumbled upon this game.

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 17 May 2016 01:09
by ShaneRoach
deleted by poster

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 17 May 2016 02:42
by qreeves

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 17 May 2016 03:22
by ShaneRoach
deleted by poster

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 17 May 2016 04:51
by shirepirate
so why is it being deleted because of a lack of reviews from reliable sources? is this supposed to implicate that the game doesn't exist or something? seems a little backwards. i mean, it obviously exists, so there are obviously reliable sources somewhere to indicate thusly. a game needs an assload of media coverage these days to warrant a wikipedia page? <.< it's worth noting that many significant and well-experienced wikipedia editors have seen the page and thought the sources to be reliable enough over the past several years before some overzealous deleter came along. a quick glimpse into past interactions in his talk page is enough to verify that.

anyway, here's more reviews that haven't even been mentioned in the talk page yet:

https://www.maketecheasier.com/red-ecli ... ource-fps/
http://www.thule.it/linux/engredeclipse.html
http://egmr.net/2012/09/indie-review-red-eclipse/
http://www.rockybytes.com/red-eclipse
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/ ... g-fps.6019
http://www.gamebuntu.ru/review/red-ecli ... log-quake/
http://game400.com/video-game-review/red-eclipse#1

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 17 May 2016 06:51
by bonifarz
I wonder if foreign language reviews will be of relevance as well.
I think iceflower has a good overview of german articles, but I think in-depth reviews are rare.
Maybe there are also some articles in Russian or Portuguese... what does our community say?
EDIT: I see, there's already one such article in above list.

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 17 May 2016 11:06
by Evropi

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 17 May 2016 11:53
by bonifarz

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 17 May 2016 13:33
by qreeves
Note to all: Please try to avoid getting caught in the trap of responding to (false) accusations and puffery. It is a distraction from the topic at hand, which is finding notable sources and contributing usefully.

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 17 May 2016 19:09
by FaTony
It's foolish to blindly vote "Keep". We need to find reliable sources covering RE instead.

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 17 May 2016 21:11
by Jfault
Just a quick note to everyone here: DO NOT VOTE KEEP!!! That would be a clear violation of ! It's probably okay for us to find more sources together, that's not influencing the discussion inappropriately.

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 17 May 2016 22:40
by ShaneRoach
deleted by poster

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 17 May 2016 23:31
by Jfault
woah... woah... woah... slow down there Shane. While what Czar is doing might be a little too much, in general what they and the other admins do is quit good work enforcing the usually completely reasonable guidelines. On the other hand, I do believe that the "Notable" and "Reliable Sources" definitions should be updated as to accommodate subjects that are less in the media's attention but still important. That being said, Czar has a (somewhat) reasonable reason to delete the RE wiki entry, as we did indeed have a lack of good sources. There's a reason that, yes, although Wikipedia has it's flaws, any encyclopedia will need tight restrictions on quality of content and Wikipedia has been doing a pretty good job at this for a while.

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 00:32
by ShaneRoach
deleted by poster

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 01:37
by qreeves
added: It is certainly hard to contribute for anyone who isn't familiar with Wikipedia policies. There are hundreds, if not thousands of WP:* pages, and to voice your opinion on a subject you're supposed to be aware of each and every one of them.

I agree the voting to keep is fairly pointless, and I never encouraged anyone to do that, all it did was get me accused of canvassing - which I didn't. I tried to get people who actually knew the subject to contribute meaningful sources they might know of. It just reinforced Czar's argument that the the community, including myself, should be excluded from the discussion because of bias. The longer we cater to their behaviour, the less time we have left to focus on the topic at hand.

I don't agree with their behaviour, and I do find it very upsetting that they treat people in this manner when the policy states they should be acting in good faith and not go throwing unfounded accusations around.

The whole reason I started this project was to do things differently. I don't believe in the elitism that is overly prevalent in open source communities, and everyone should be treated equally. I know this doesn't always work in practice, but at least I don't let myself get too caught up in it and manage to treat people with respect, new and old. We're better than that, let it be like water off a duck's back. If we're not notable now, perhaps we should make more of an effort to attract legitimate journalists to review the game properly; the mistake we've made is promoting releases, which these people simply chalk up to "release announcements which carry no review information" and are not notable enough to satisfy their skewed criteria. And no, you can't make the argument "Article X has less notable references than our Y", it doesn't work that way.

EDIT: Strikeout added (argumentative and unjustified).

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 01:46
by ShaneRoach
If there's any one person I am sorry to have disappointed here it would be you, Reeves.

If I could go back and take back what I have done I would. But on the other hand, like I said, it royally pisses me off.

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 04:11
by qreeves

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 06:58
by czar

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 07:12
by bonifarz

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 07:54
by qreeves

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 08:05
by qreeves

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 11:51
by freezurbern

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 14:15
by ShaneRoach
deleted by poster

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 15:03
by bonifarz

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 15:07
by ShaneRoach
deleted by poster

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 15:44
by bonifarz

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 16:14
by ShaneRoach
deleted by poster

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 17:24
by FaTony
We just need to get a decent media coverage and then restore the article.

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 18 May 2016 17:43
by ShaneRoach
deleted by poster

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 19 May 2016 03:23
by qreeves
ShaneRoach: It would have been nice if you had followed my lead and dropped the argument instead of continuing to be hostile to Czar when he made an attempt to explain himself and extend the olive branch, which I might add, he was under no obligation to do.

EDIT: Thanks ShaneRoach, I appreciate it. I have changed my "vote" to delete. I think we need to focus on the new release and then move on to promoting RE better.

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 19 May 2016 10:21
by bonifarz

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 19 May 2016 14:37
by ShaneRoach

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 20 May 2016 02:38
by qreeves

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 25 May 2016 12:50
by bonifarz
For those who have not followed the deletion discussion: It has been relisted yesterday, so they have not come to a conclusion so far.
Furthermore, a wikipedian known as Shaddim has contributed some interesting points to both, the discussion and the actual article, such as a section about the IllumiRoom paper: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =720471243
So, there are people who care for the project.

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 26 May 2016 02:58
by qreeves
While it is good to see this happening (and I appreciate them restarting the discussion from scratch), I'm staying out of it this time :P

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 26 May 2016 06:34
by ShaneRoach
I do appreciate Bonifarz keeping the RE community updated. :D

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 02 Jun 2016 15:23
by bonifarz
Well, I didn't really expect this, but they decided to delete the article.
Maybe we can get it back when there are more "reliable sources" *shrug*
I should have made a copy of shaddim's revision. Anyway.

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 02 Jun 2016 23:39
by ShaneRoach

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 02 Jun 2016 23:52
by Jfault
Well, can't say I'm really surprised.

NEXT UP: get notable!

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 03 Jun 2016 01:10
by qreeves
Who cares. Their behaviour is too antagonistic and I don't think we should waste any more time trying to convince people who have already made up their minds. We're at the top of search engine results anyway, that's what matters. After all this, I'll probably avoid Wikipedia entirely now; politics and encyclopaedia are two words that should never be in the same sentence (unless it is an article about politics, I guess).

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 13 Jun 2016 13:06
by bonifarz

Re: INFO: Red Eclipse Wikipedia Article Deletion Review

PostPosted: 13 Jun 2016 13:44
by ShaneRoach
That's cool you were able to snatch the code back up by keeping an eye on it like that.