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Red Eclipse • View topic - Capture the Flag changes

Capture the Flag changes

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Capture the Flag changes

Postby blakthunder » 16 Mar 2014 05:35

Last edited by blakthunder on 19 Mar 2014 03:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby gynter » 16 Mar 2014 09:20

Jep, a good player with buff + shotty/rifle combo = basically invincible. Maybe remove buff from the carrier and buff only when flag is returned and player staying near it?
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby acerspyro » 16 Mar 2014 13:35

125% buffing, and camping with it (Or going further than a certain radius from the base if it was picked up with F) returns it / drops it.
*screams internally*
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby freezurbern » 16 Mar 2014 13:54

I find it very easy to camp with the flag and plasma

I would enjoy some different mechanics in this mode
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby SniperGoth » 16 Mar 2014 16:25

Flag Resetting is a must-use technique in maps like Deli, Suspended, Canals, Biolytic and Ubik, since these maps are relativelly big/have very large death areas.
Ex: Your team has the enemy flag, and they have yours. Both are on their bases defending their flag carriers.
You start to pursue the enemy flag carrier, that is in their base.
He is killed, you got your flag back. Then you'd need to get back to your base, right?
Yes and No.
Yes because you would make your way back to your base, with risks of being shot down in the process.
No because you would throw the flag in a death pit (or the Air Death Pit, that is after the sky clip in Deli) , and it would return to your base securelly after 3 or so seconds.
Someone should write this technique in the wiki btw.
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby Bobbo » 16 Mar 2014 16:41

I had a topic recently on the new 'secure' mechanic of CTF games, which allows you to press F to secure the flag from your own base and carry it around, giving you the buff. Although it didn't gain a lot of replies, the topic I had is here ( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=55 ).


The flag resetting thing, it's useful but I dislike it, however I don't think there's really a 'nice' way to fix it, except changing all of those maps to not be able to kill you.
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby SniperGoth » 16 Mar 2014 17:45

If we had a competitive scene ( something i think is going to happen, sooner or later ), this technique would be used like, everytime, y'know.
It's a bit unfair to the players that don't know the spots/don't know how to use it though.
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby blakthunder » 16 Mar 2014 20:57

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby Bobbo » 16 Mar 2014 21:13

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby blakthunder » 18 Mar 2014 00:51

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby subraizada3 » 18 Mar 2014 11:54

The buffing is insanely powerful, but people won't notice it until the other team uses it to pwn them.
One solution is to have the buffing not apply if it is picked up from the base.
Also, if the flag is recovered normally there should be a timer on how long the buffing applies (15 seconds?) which resets only if the flag carrier is killed (not suicide or fail).
That way the only option would be for a teammate to teamkill the carrier (-6 points, anyone?), and 15 seconds should be enough to return it or get to the relative safety of the team base.
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby radiant » 18 Mar 2014 17:41

Don't forget that it's also possible for the flag carrier to drop the flag with F, wait a few seconds, and pick it back up to "recover it normally" all over again (or have a teammate pick it up right away).

How about...if a flag gets dropped by any means, and its last known holder was an opponent, then upon being picked up by a teammate, the timer will start: 10, 15 seconds...whatever. When that timer runs out, the carrier buff stops applying, and nothing can cause the timer to reset except an opponent picking up and losing the flag again. (Of course, setting the flag in its stand and leaving it there relieves the buff of its contingency on any timer.)

Protect mode is another wrinkle. The theme of that mode appears to be "take your flag with you to get the increased firepower you need to break through to the opponent", which would suggest that it wants the existing behavior to continue wherever GSP3 is set. Once you grab an opponent's flag, they either take you out successfully or get it back at their base 15 seconds later, which prevents the tactic of sitting on both flags with a lead, refusing to score and running down the clock while no one else gets any buff to go head-to-head with you. (Unless, that is, you can stake out a hiding spot and repeatedly drop the flags as necessary to prevent the game from registering a capture, all the while hoping the opponents don't find you and scoop up the flags themselves once you drop them.)

Also, in stock 1.4, protect causes a player to automatically pick up their own flag just by running over the stand while it's there, a behavior that SVN no longer replicates. What led to that change?

In defend, you can't pick up your own flag under any circumstances, which is the defining feature of that mode. Instead, an opponent can rush in toward the fallen flag, helped by the spawnprotect interval. If the flag resets after 15 seconds loose, and it's been 13 before a player sneaks in to grab it, then even if you put the opponent down right away, the timer goes back to the full 15 seconds, plenty of time for them to come back and repeat. With this kind of activity going on at both ends, it leads to a bunch of scoreless draws, and nothing either team can really do about it. I've suggested this before, but my idea here is to keep track of the reset timer even while a flag is being held. If it was picked up 2 seconds away from resetting, then as long as that player can hold onto it, the timer would count up at an equal rate: 3...4...5...and on to the maximum 15. If the flag carrier gets killed, the timer starts counting down again from wherever it left off, and this lets the defenders actually accomplish something, instead of uselessly gunning down an onslaught under the impossible prospect of having to keep the flag untouched for an entire 15-second window all at once. It's still harder to score there than in vanilla, no doubt, but there's a difference between "harder" and "never gonna happen".
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby Bobbo » 18 Mar 2014 18:07

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby qreeves » 30 Mar 2014 04:55

Moved to Issue Tracker, now an open issue.
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby qreeves » 01 Apr 2014 09:18

Update: Buffing in general has been reduced from 150/150 to 125/125. Capture the flag buffing has been modified so that flag carriers are no longer buffed (but they still buff teammates around them). Thoughts? Comments?

Not sure about the whole "dropping off the edge" deal, and your bullet point doesn't really suggest any actual changes to this mechanic. I recently added some code to impose a penalty for dropping your own flag in a hazard; for 3.5 seconds you can't pick up your own flag or score another team's flag, hopefully allowing time for the other team to make a final push. The only other clear-cut solution I can see is to disallow dropping of the flag entirely.
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby Bobbo » 01 Apr 2014 13:18

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby acerspyro » 01 Apr 2014 16:38

Flag resets anyways after a certain time, so you can't lose it forever and screw up the game

Why would we even need buffing to bring back a flag anyways?
*screams internally*
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby freezurbern » 01 Apr 2014 20:56

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby subraizada3 » 01 Apr 2014 21:00

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby Bobbo » 01 Apr 2014 21:09

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby radiant » 01 Apr 2014 21:52

The core premise of the game's philosophy is that flight is superior to fight. The recent weapon variable changes paint a clear picture of the belief that players used to have too much killing power at their disposal, and a desire to dial it back in preference to that guiding vision.

Given that much and the rules of CTF, it follows that under most circumstances it's simply correct to hold the flag rather than have it sit exposed in its stand, even with a guard nearby. Holding the flag is a 100% assurance that no one else will be picking it up without going through you first, much better than anything you can get by constraining your mobility to the area around your own flag stand.
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby Honno » 02 Apr 2014 06:39

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby qreeves » 02 Apr 2014 07:04

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby blakthunder » 02 Apr 2014 23:26

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby Calinou » 07 Apr 2014 14:21

I think buffing teammates only and not the flag carrier is a very good idea, it encourages team work.
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby shirepirate » 08 Apr 2014 01:50

as long as it's on topic, i'm all for absolutely no buff or extremely minimal buff (and only for the flag carrier)
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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby Bobbo » 08 Apr 2014 09:04

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby qreeves » 08 Apr 2014 10:33

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby Bobbo » 08 Apr 2014 15:27

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby freezurbern » 08 Apr 2014 21:55

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Re: Capture the Flag changes

Postby qreeves » 23 Jul 2014 04:28

I believe any remaining issues brought up in this thread are simply map-based. Adding more adequate death clipping to some maps would result in faster resets.
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