Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

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Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby qreeves » 22 Aug 2014 06:39

As those who follow SVN may be aware, the first time a player goes to visit the server browser, they are shown the Multiplayer Guidelines and must agree to them before they can proceed. While this does make most players aware of the rules when using the master server, it is server operators that seem to be the least aware. This presents a problem when server owners get reports of other people elevating their access using global priveleges, which is often viewed as a rogue entity taking control of the server (even when the moderator does nothing). Is there a good way to make sure those setting up a server actually read the guidelines prior to them launching it?
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby shirepirate » 22 Aug 2014 07:51

probably it isn't explained adequately in those guidelines why and exactly how some users of servers are given elevated privileges. the 1st time i'd heard of it was when an admin explained it here on the forum, before that i thought it was a bug. that was before i'd tried to set up a server.

the system doesn't seem to work very well either, as many servers have no active moderator or higher auth at any given time.

maybe a server guidelines text file alongside the readme or something. it could be n00b friendly, called "setting up a server" or something like that. and explain in it exactly and precisely how users are granted extra privileges and why; this will eliminate any confusion.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby qreeves » 22 Aug 2014 08:06

shirepirate wrote:the system doesn't seem to work very well either, as many servers have no active moderator or higher auth at any given time.

The point of failure has been me not promoting players on a regular basis, I was hoping to get more recommendations from existing moderators so the system could sustain itself without my constant presence.

shirepirate wrote:maybe a server guidelines text file alongside the readme or something.

I daresay that would be overlooked more often than not. People don't even really read the readme's as it is. I doubt people will read it in the client menus either, but at least it indemnifies me.

What we started to do with IRC servers (back in the day) was to have a kill switch, for instance a var that had to be set before the server will run (most IRCd's actually had a die command in the default config file). The problem there is that it increases the number of support requests from people who don't read and wonder why they can't start their server, and it gets old really fast. This idea also poses the problem wherein someone may not even be using it on the master server (setting up a local game, but then I guess they'd need to read up on configuring that).
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby freezurbern » 22 Aug 2014 11:53

qreeves wrote:What we started to do with IRC servers (back in the day) was to have a kill switch, for instance a var that had to be set before the server will run (most IRCd's actually had a die command in the default config file). The problem there is that it increases the number of support requests from people who don't read and wonder why they can't start their server, and it gets old really fast. This idea also poses the problem wherein someone may not even be using it on the master server (setting up a local game, but then I guess they'd need to read up on configuring that).

I think this is the best option so far, because for the IRCd's it required people to read. Those folks hid their die commands in the config fairly well! I believe RE should use the same model, but put it at the top of the config surrounded by some attention grabbing text about the guidelines.
About the idiot support, I think if someone runs a server without a servinit.cfg present, the server should start up. Also, yes, it might cause some people to come to IRC (if they know it exists) but I think we can handle that.
Last edited by freezurbern on 27 Aug 2014 01:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby SylvieLorxu » 22 Aug 2014 14:27

We could maybe do something like this:

Code: Select all
➜  redeclipse-svn  ./redeclipse_server.sh
Fri Aug 22 16:15:27 2014 identity: Red Eclipse v1.4.1-nix 32 bit (Elara P1)
Fri Aug 22 16:15:27 2014 configuration reloaded
Fri Aug 22 16:15:27 2014 init: server (*:28801)
Fri Aug 22 16:15:27 2014 dedicated server started, waiting for clients...
Fri Aug 22 16:15:27 2014 WARNING: Your server is currently unlisted. If you accept the multiplayer guidelines (available through http://redeclipse.net/wiki/Multiplayer_Guidelines), please rerun with the -sl flag to list your server with the chosen master server


Followed by the server being online, but not connected to the master server.

This solution, however, has some issues:
1. It will break the setup of all existing server owners
2. It ignores the idea of other master servers (maybe the master server could be asked if there are guidelines, like by trying to download master-server-url/guidelines.txt, and only pop up the warning, linking to the guidelines and require the flag when it has guidelines?)

I have chosen -sl to mean "server list", but this is obviously just an example.

Another, probably easier, solution would possibly be to not have a default master server set, and explicitly require uncommenting servermaster in the .cfg, also linking to the guidelines in the .cfg.

I think it's important to realize we don't want to stop people from running servers, but we want them to not be registered with our master server unless they accept the guidelines. Therefore, we want to avoid anything that completely keeps users from starting servers.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby freezurbern » 22 Aug 2014 18:18

SylvieLorxu wrote:another, probably easier, solution would possibly be to not have a default master server set, and explicitly require uncommenting servermaster in the .cfg, also linking to the guidelines in the .cfg.


I like this option now! I think that is the easiest solution to implement, as well as for the server owner. Messing with command line flags may be a bit too complex.
When implementing this option, it would be really important to make sure the clients still had a default master, but the servers didnt.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby unixfreak » 23 Aug 2014 05:44

I like SylvieLorxu's method.

Throwing out ideas...

servinit.cfg
Code: Select all
...

sv_ihavereadtheguidelines 1

....


When set to 0; the motd appends "Warning; operator has not configured the server!".
Within the servinit.cfg, add a commented section detailing the a summary of the guidelines. Basically, if the person running the server hasn't read through the top of servinit.cfg then they are informed that they probably haven't read the guidelines because they didn't configure anything at all. That way, the server is still joinable/listed.

Or maybe...
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby Bobbo » 23 Aug 2014 12:05

The guidelines, as well as the moderators, could be better as well.

I've seen a lot of the use of racial or heavily abusive terms in game, which instinctively I'd do something about but everyone else in the community uses them as well. Even the people who're supposed to be moderating this kind of stuff do it too, leaving the new moderators unsure what to do about such behaviour.

There's also no rule for common things which people do which is annoying behaviour, such as multiple nick changes in short succession, not playing (eg, spawning and suiciding or similar) and impersonation. The guidelines for moderators say converse with peers, but often there isn't one around.

Cracking down on this shitty behaviour (from both the players and the authorities) would make things nicer for quin.



I like Sylvie's method too, btw.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby bonifarz » 24 Aug 2014 13:30

Oh, and don't forget about the "server" radio buttons in the F2 menu (which are shown when disconnected) - these give a very convenient way to to launch a temporary server for private or public use. What about a "please note our server guidelines" tooltip on the public button?

Also: A short article on the wiki with a description of the player ranks and privs icons might help to clarify things.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby gynter » 26 Aug 2014 16:33

One way would be for a server to have a unique hash like for auths and force the server owner to register the server:

Code: Select all
➜  redeclipse-svn  ./redeclipse_server.sh
Fri Aug 22 16:15:27 2014 identity: Red Eclipse v1.4.1-nix 32 bit (Elara P1)
Fri Aug 22 16:15:27 2014 configuration reloaded
Fri Aug 22 16:15:27 2014 init: server (*:28801)
Fri Aug 22 16:15:27 2014 dedicated server started, waiting for clients...
Fri Aug 22 16:15:27 2014 WARNING: Your server is currently unlisted. To register Your server with master server You must accept the multiplayer guidelines at http://redeclipse.net/register_server/<unique server hash>


Server owner goes to http://redeclipse.net/register_server/<unique server hash>, sees the rules there and presses accept. The hash is generated on the first run of the server and will be saved to the config. Every time you run the server again the hash will be checked against the master server to see if the server is registered.

edit
Even easier way would be something like this: http://redeclipse.net/register_server/ip:port. With this way no hash will be saved to config, only master server checks if the server with that IP and port is registered or not and server gets the reply from master server, that server operator must register the server. This also addresses the issue of accidental distributions of config files with your unique server hash which would most likely start to occur with my first suggestion.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby freezurbern » 26 Aug 2014 19:49

gynter wrote:Even easier way would be something like this: http://redeclipse.net/register_server/ip:port. With this way no hash will be saved to config, only master server checks if the server with that IP and port is registered or not

This would be bad for dynamic IP's. :(
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby shirepirate » 26 Aug 2014 23:02

having to uncomment something in the config is not good at all, it makes setting up a public server annoyingly complex. if the guidelines would be/are currently overlooked, it's only necessary to make sure they are impossible to overlook. i started a server using the pre-written batch file in windows. i imagine it's a little different on every platform but, is there a way to provide a gui pop-up or even a simple window notification before the server will start and become live, and to have this on every platform? something with a "i understand" tick box and even a 2nd "do not show this again" tick box. that completely indemnifies if the server breaks guidelines and justifies any action to ban it from the master server (as long as the guidelines are made a little more concise.. i daresay they aren't up to snuff at the moment).
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby freezurbern » 27 Aug 2014 00:29

shirepirate wrote:is there a way to provide a gui pop-up or even a simple window notification


A lot of people run their servers from a VPS, which usually doesn't even have the basic building blocks for a gui installed. I think uncommenting or switching a var is okay, because the person should be doing that anyways (not blindly using a config from somewhere else)
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby shirepirate » 27 Aug 2014 00:48

freezurbern wrote:A lot of people run their servers from a VPS, which usually doesn't even have the basic building blocks for a gui installed. I think uncommenting or switching a var is okay, because the person should be doing that anyways (not blindly using a config from somewhere else)


any VPS including mine could pass along a simple window notification or check box form. there are free templates galore for that sort of thing too. a public server should be as easy and simple as possible to set up. i think it's hard enough as it is for someone truly new to make sense of the server initialization file. it just sounds like a "quick fix" or "makeshift" solution to the issue, when really all efforts should be put toward the best solution possible.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby qreeves » 27 Aug 2014 02:10

Keep in mind that we don't really need that many servers (we have about 10 times more than we require), so adding a difficulty curve to setting one up isn't that big of a deal. If the person can't be bothered setting up their server properly, then we probably don't want it anyway.

There is no real cross platform method for showing a dialog that doesn't require the use of extra libraries, or a different method written for each platform. Not about to do either of these for something so specific.

I did consider having "server owner keys", so that one could register their server (and be marked as official), but I too saw the same issues arising. Maybe a simple password/hash that is unique to the master server, so it only changes depending on what master server you use. The password could be at the end of the guidelines page. This way everyone has the same instructions to follow, and there is no "approval" process to worry about.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby gynter » 01 Sep 2014 18:27

Just for curiosity, have there ever been global perms access removal (by modifying the server's code) or some legal issues with servers in the past? Maybe we are overthinking it and it's only enough if we put the line "By running this software You agree the Multiplayer Guidlines which can be found at http://redeclipse.net/wiki/Multiplayer_Guidelines" to README?
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby Bobbo » 01 Sep 2014 18:31

gynter wrote:Just for curiosity, have there ever been global perms access removal (by modifying the server's code) or some legal issues with servers in the past? Maybe we are overthinking it and it's only enough if we put the line "By running this software You agree the Multiplayer Guidlines which can be found at http://redeclipse.net/wiki/Multiplayer_Guidelines" to README?

I think the problem is that people don't read it in the first place; so while saying that does cover your ass in terms of legal issues/arguments, it'd still cause the initial confusion about the global ranked people.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby qreeves » 02 Sep 2014 01:39

Yes, the guidelines were developed because people were banning me and disabling auth on their servers. It is just a written version of the rules set out by eihrul and myself. It saves me from having to explain it over and over again, I now just outright ban anything that breaches them.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby Calinou » 02 Sep 2014 18:05

gynter wrote:Just for curiosity, have there ever been global perms access removal (by modifying the server's code) or some legal issues with servers in the past? Maybe we are overthinking it and it's only enough if we put the line "By running this software You agree the Multiplayer Guidlines which can be found at http://redeclipse.net/wiki/Multiplayer_Guidelines" to README?


You can run Red Eclipse client and server without agreeing to the guidelines (play offline and/or host an unlisted server).
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby qreeves » 03 Sep 2014 02:32

Calinou wrote:You can run Red Eclipse client and server without agreeing to the guidelines (play offline and/or host an unlisted server).

Yeah, that is part of the problem. As mentioned above, there could be a way for the master server to set and check guidelines itself.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby shirepirate » 03 Jan 2015 02:13

to bump an old topic,

it's important that server owners understand by agreeing to the guidelines and connecting to the master server they must adhere to (and all assigned local auth must adhere to) the guidelines for servers. while creating additional rules is acceptable as detailed in the document, targeting a specific player with verbal threats, banning users without any justifiable reason and any other abuse of power by local mods, operators or admins will be treated with the same severity across the board. Red Eclipse is free to play, so blocking anyone's access to an official server because of a personal grudge or bigotry won't be tolerated, period. you will risk your server being permanently banned.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby qreeves » 03 Jan 2015 04:54

Servers
  • The owner of a server may outline their own rules, specific to their server.
    • These rules may not revoke any part of this document.
    • These rules must not make any unreasonable or illegal demands.
  • Failure to follow these guidelines may result in the immediate ban and removal of the server in question from listing on the master server, without warning.
Moderators
  • Moderators must act in a fair and impartial manner, employing the "warn, then kick, then ban" approach, unless there is an emergency or immediate need.
  • The use of kick and/or ban should only be used when a user violates sections of this document. If in doubt, moderators should seek the advice of their peers (other players and/or moderators) before proceeding with disciplinary action. A moderator may kick and/or ban for other reasons if there is due cause to do so.
  • Failure by a moderator to follow or uphold the rules may result in their access being immediately revoked, without warning.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby qreeves » 03 Jan 2015 05:07

I suggest if it gets out of hand, you report it to me. Sometimes I have to be hard on this kind of stuff to get the point across.
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Re: Multiplayer Guidelines Awareness

Postby freezurbern » 03 Jan 2015 12:34

I think the excertp above should also mention it is both local and global moderators, just for clarity.
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