kamikaze change poll

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I think the default for the kamikaze variable should be:

Poll ended at 18 Feb 2015 18:45

0 - never
0
No votes
1,0 - holding grenade (current default setting)
0
No votes
1,1 - holding grenade + delayed explosion
5
29%
2,0 - have grenade
0
No votes
2,1 - have grenade + delayed explosion
3
18%
3,0 - always
0
No votes
3,0 - always + delayed explosion (a grenade would be created if it didn't exist)
0
No votes
N,0 - cooking grenade
2
12%
N,1 - cooking grenade + delayed explosion
7
41%
??? - undecided
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 17

kamikaze change poll

Postby Bobbo » 08 Feb 2015 18:45

Currently there are four options for kamikaze:
  • 0: never
  • 1: holding grenade - if you have a grenade as your current weapon
  • 2: have grenade - if you have a grenade on you
  • 3: always - everyone explodes when they die, like some action film robot

kamikaze is a bit of a gimmicky mechanic which is generally not liked by players, due to it's nature of being a 'fuck you' sign to short ranged combat and abused with the suicide functionality to kill people.

So this is proposing a new variable, kamikazedelay. kamikazedelay would have two options, 0 and 1. 0 would be akin to the current behaviour where the grenade explodes instantly, 1 would wait for the expiration of the cooking timer before explosion.
Additionally there'd be a new option for the kamikaze variable, cooking grenade, in which the explosion event would only occur if the grenade was being cooked at the time of death.

The poll is for the default of the two new variables.

The poll will run for 10 days from Sunday 8th February.
Last edited by Bobbo on 08 Feb 2015 19:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby Jfault » 09 Feb 2015 00:16

The cook wouldn't do anything, I would just jump in while cooking and suicide.
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby Bobbo » 09 Feb 2015 00:32

That's why there's the kamikazedelay variable, suiciding with that set wouldn't be ineffective, unless you timed it right.
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby shirepirate » 09 Feb 2015 00:42

suiciding at any time also presents a huge point penalty, though this doesn't mean much in CTF
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby swooboo » 22 Feb 2017 15:20

I know it's probably too late, but I'd still want to voice my opinion.

1. I like the kamikaze mechanic as it is now. Call me noob, or 'legitimate strategist', but I think it brings some chaotic fun into the game.
2. I understand it has already been nerfed, so why not nerf more?
3. I had another idea which is not listed here - suicide bombing. Hear me out, one cooks the grenade, but it doesn't explode until it's released. So, one can't exploit it to insta kill, but it can still be used as a defensive strategy in CTF. (Which is my fav mode, and kami is my fav 'legitimate strategy', so...)

I do understand though that the train is probably already gone, because I hear all the time from kamikaze haters that it'll be soon gone.
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby IQrate » 24 Feb 2017 13:44

Why not like this: when u have bomb and somebody kills u your bomb fall down and after 3 secs it explode?
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby swooboo » 24 Feb 2017 17:52

I think that's one of the options - "holding grenade -> delayed explosion". What I meant was - I want to be able to explode at will instantly. It should come with a price of course, for example a time to 'fiddle with the wires', after which you can explode whenever you want.
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby Bobbo » 24 Feb 2017 17:58

swooboo wrote:I think that's one of the options - "holding grenade -> delayed explosion". What I meant was - I want to be able to explode at will instantly. It should come with a price of course, for example a time to 'fiddle with the wires', after which you can explode whenever you want.

Which is doable, you just cook the grenade to 100%. You can still do it but it requires some up front skill in timing to actually do it, unlike the current suicide-kamikaze behaviour which is pretty much giving people a range limited /kill command.
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby swooboo » 27 Feb 2017 12:13

My 'fiddle with the wires' option or the one @IQrate suggested?
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby IQrate » 27 Feb 2017 18:23

wut why cant i wote ?
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby swooboo » 27 Feb 2017 22:14

IQrate wrote:wut why cant i wote ?


See above the poll:
Poll ended at 18 Feb 2015 20:45


Maybe the poll should be re-opened?
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby SniperGoth » 28 Feb 2017 01:28

I dont think there's any problem with the kamikaze these days.
Personally i dont see it anymore, as the grenade from 1.5 onwards uses the same settings as the 1.3.1 one.
This poll was made with 1.4/1.4.5's OPNADE in mind (IIRC), and it was a very serious issue on that time.
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby swooboo » 28 Feb 2017 19:19

Hm, somehow I've really missed the date, even though I actually copy & pasted it into the quote... Anyways, I've heard many times online that the default is going to be changed in the next version. Is this false?
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby Bobbo » 28 Feb 2017 22:41

swooboo wrote:Hm, somehow I've really missed the date, even though I actually copy & pasted it into the quote... Anyways, I've heard many times online that the default is going to be changed in the next version. Is this false?

As far as I'm aware, no, because that was the result of this poll: https://github.com/red-eclipse/base/issues/95

SniperGoth wrote:I dont think there's any problem with the kamikaze these days.
Personally i dont see it anymore, as the grenade from 1.5 onwards uses the same settings as the 1.3.1 one.
This poll was made with 1.4/1.4.5's OPNADE in mind (IIRC), and it was a very serious issue on that time.

1.5 came out in March 2015, 1.4.5 grenade was already nerfed from 1.4 (there may have been a few changes between 1.4.5 and 1.5 with the reduction of grenade quantities on some maps). The underlying issue is still there, really.

swooboo wrote:My 'fiddle with the wires' option or the one @IQrate suggested?

I didn't particularly properly comprehend what you said. What IQrate suggested is the new intended functionality. As for yourself, you have the power to explode at will by using the rocket or just cooking the grenade to max (which you can also reset by switching weapons if you misstime it), both of these options have an actual cost or skill requirement which better matches the power of this manoeuvre.

On a second though, I don't think a 'fiddle with the wires' option is good at all, as it'd require a new keybind to do it, presumably, or some way to activate it on top of actually killing yourself.

The current kamikaze behaviour also has other problems, particularly in instagib or close combat scenarios (gladiator, medieval, for example), where simply holding a grenade makes you some-what untouchable.
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Re: kamikaze change poll

Postby swooboo » 04 Mar 2017 17:26

I think the 'fiddle with the wires' might not require a new keybind, for example, it could be triggered upon releasing K and not by pressing it. So K -> fiddle with the wires for the delay -> release -> explosion. If you didn't release it on time - regular suicide (or maybe the cancelation of the cooking). I think this will need a little less skill than the new intended behavior because it won't let me explode at will. I predict that kamikaze won't be used at all because of the drawback of not being able to trigger the explosion instantly.
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